Misc: Charging Systems Alton Question

Nigel Spaxman

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
There has been a lot of discussion of this on the Norton site. In theory, the shorting regs are often viewed as a bad thing.
In practice, they seem to work just fine and last a very long time.
If opting for a Shindengen, beware, there are lots of fake Shindengen regs out there! Also, Shindengen makes both types, switching and shorting regs. Some have purchased the shorting regs thinking it was a switching reg.
Either way they seem to work.
So do the Podtronics regs.

Glen
Most bikes don't really have a lot of extra electrical power anyway, turning the extra power into heat is not a problem as it is not that much heat. I have a Norton that is still running a Zener Diode that was probably new in 1975. I rode a Triumph for three or four years with no Zener Diode and it was no problem, I just left the headlight on and made sure the battery was topped up with water. I don't know how much an Alton puts out but if it is about 250 watts it is unlikely that it would need to dissipate more than 100 watts into heat very often. That isn't much heat really. The heat goes into a heat sink, not into the windings.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Monkeypants

Well Known and Active Forum User
Non-VOC Member
. I don't know how much an Alton puts out but if it is about 250 watts it is unlikely that it would need to dissipate more than 100 watts into heat very often. That isn't much heat really. The heat goes into a heat sink, not into the windings.
About 150 watts at 100 mph:)
Maybe it hits max a bit lower, but not much.
At legal speeds there is enough power there, maybe 100 watts, but no great excess. It's enough to keep the Podtronics dryish on a damp day.
But if the heated vest is on along with the headlight on a coil ignition bike, better keep the revs up! 12 watt LED is helping a lot.

Glen
 

John Reynolds

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Trispark (Australia) produce a Mosfet switching regulator suitable for use with Alton generators.

https://www.trispark.com.au/mosfet-20-amp-voltage-rectifier-regulator

Although Trispark ignition systems are available in the UK, I could not find a UK supplier for the regulator. Trispark will supply directly and send by airmail (at a cost!) - and then there is the (UK) import duty to pay. The Australian dollar is quite weak at the moment, so the overall cost is not too bad.

Mosfet switching regulators work by switching the output from the generator off and on at a high frequency, the switching rate being controlled by a voltage reference within the unit. Therefore they do not get very hot and they do not generate the electrical 'noise' associated with shunting (=controlled shorting/grounding) regulators.
 

oexing

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
165 Dollars, honestly ?? Now tell me what´s not to like with the converter 48 to 13.8 V plus three phase rectifier at 25 €€ from China ? This set was tested in my workshop at 200 W plus loads for half an hour and no heat problem with all components - or no trust in my words ??? It does not matter at all what kind of generator you hook onto this set, single, two or three phase. You just have it output AC whatever it can and convert in last stage for 13.8 V - simple.

Vic
 

Monkeypants

Well Known and Active Forum User
Non-VOC Member
The AliExpress unit might be fine or it might be like the unreliable Chinese rec/regs Alton used to supply ten years ago. Same with the Trispark, although there will be some of those out there being used in the real world. Trispark has had problems with failure rate in the past, Norton EI ignitions come to mind
There are thousands of Podtronics out there and they have done millions of miles over a couple of decades now. The failure rate is very low. I just reinstalled a twelve year old unit and I expect it will see me out.
Same with Shindengen if you like the switching idea. There are lots of those in use on modern bikes as well. The MOSFET Shindengen seems to be the go to unit when factory regs fail, as they like to do on 02-07 Triumph Daytonas.
$160 isn't a lot for a fit and forget unit, but the trick is to make sure that you get an authentic Shindengen, not a fake.
Avoid eBay on this!
I keep a tray full of fake NGK plugs just to remind myself of that problem.

Glen
 
Last edited:

oexing

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Well, one can have the idea that anything from China is crap - when not willing to find out wherefrom most electronics come in all sorts of equipment, no matter how famous the brand may be. You bet most electronic devices in Mercedes, BMW, Rolls etc. were not produced in their homeland , that was the case decades ago. Same goes for the computer sitting in front of you - or Shindengen for you, look up their manufacturing places. So no question for me to source anything from anywhere that looks useful and at a good price. Why shouldn´t I when all big companies do just that - for higher profits in their pockets.
My point here actually was to go not for another regulator that cuts voltage and power at 14 V , dump a lot of power into heat sinks in this process that otherwise would be useful for electric power - stupid idea to accept this. So thumbs up for the 48 V converter cum rectifier at € 25.- , tested in my workshop OK with NO heat issue at all for the converter, just the rectifier should sit on a piece of alu I´d say, was a bit warm after half an hour at over 200 W / 13.8 V load. If you got an Alton I´d be interested in getting reports about any power gains with said converter/rectifier kit , at least it is a low cost try at € 25.- .
There was a thread about my mods earlier , see below the link,
"Make your own generator"
there are some links to these servo motors and more like in photos above for those who like a bit of lathe work in times for own creations, the easy way is to get an Alton - plus maybe the converter set. I looked for alternatives to Altons when I read about reports of failed plastic gears in the older versions. This was changed it seems but power is not the same class like with the China brushless motor types in my mods at around € 80.- with express shipping.

Vic
link to Aliexpress brushless motor:
300 W brushless
 

Monkeypants

Well Known and Active Forum User
Non-VOC Member
I don't assume that all the China stuff is crap- it isn't. But it is a crap shoot for quality with those AliExpress items.
For me it's more a case of not wanting to do any more on road charging system experimentation. I went through a melted Miller, 3 versions of the Alton, then a fried Lithium Battery. We were always hundreds of miles from home when failure occured.
The charging system has really been the only weakness that showed up in touring 60,000 on the Vincent. It can really ruin your holiday!
Fortunately we always made it home on the bike somehow.
On one trip we hooked up IV lines from Robert Watson's Woolly Mammoth and transfused electrical power into my Rapide battery.
We never did find a way to do this at speed!
Other times and with other failures I purchased a large lawn tractor battery from Napa, stuffed it in the top box and ran deadloss all the way home. The drill at night was to run an extension cord through the motel bathroom window out to a battery charger to charge up for the next 350 miles.
For a long time I packed the extension cord, spare battery and charger along on every trip as I fully expected the charging system to fail. It did not disappoint!

I've finally stopped doing that as the last version direct drive Alton coupled with Podtronics has been very reliable. So it's a case of finally finding something that works and not wanting to return to old problems. Touring should be fun.
I'll leave the roadside electrical experimentation to others.

Glen
 
Last edited:

LoneStar

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
I've deployed several Shindengen MOSFET regulators successfully (not on my Vincent, as it has a dynamo).

Most new units on Ebay are indeed fake, but you can get a used genuine one from a bike that had it specified as original equipment. Salvage yards are filled with crashed bikes with perfectly good regulators; the going rate on Ebay seems to be c. $25.

The Shindengen FH020 (50A rating shunt type, MOSFET) was used on: Kawasaki ZX14R 2012-8 ; Suzuki GSXS1000, GSXS1000F 2016-17; Can Am/Ski Doo part #515177325
 

vibrac

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Well I never did! talk about ask a simple question :)
There are some clever guys on this forum no doubt about that!
 
Top