Misc: Charging Systems Alton Question

vibrac

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
For a long time Alton 'Dynamos' were supplied with a regulator that would slowly discharge the battery when not in use unless there was a switch in the circuit then they started (2017?) to produce 'Dynamos' with a regulator that did not discharge at rest. If I have an early Alton will a new regulator work and also not discharge the battery
 

Marcus Bowden

VOC Hon. Overseas Representative
VOC Member
Not a problem Tim four wires 2 yellow connecting to Alton 1 red positive 1 black to earth. but always ride with as much as you can using up the power as it saves the regulator trying to dissipate so much heat, when you consider the heat into the grips 60Watt lamp that is now down to 20 watt LED x two on main beam one on dip when Mr Goff finds me a RH dipper reflector & glass.
bananaman.
 

SteveF

Well Known and Active Forum User
Non-VOC Member
Hmm, that's a very good point about heat dissipation by the regulator as the way it controls the output voltage. Does anyone know of any switching regulators which would avoid this problem?
Cheers - Steve
 

bmetcalf

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
I have assumed that a permanent magnet alternator can only regulate output by converting the excess to heat. The car type have a field to modulate to increase or decrease excitation and regulate the voltage. PUB335 should chime in!
 

SteveF

Well Known and Active Forum User
Non-VOC Member
I did some quick digging and found this: https://www.shindengen.com/products/electro/motorcycle/reg/
where they list something called a "Single-Phase Open Regulator/Rectifier" which looks to be what I'm talking about. Basically it connects and disconnects the alternator output at very high speed to produce a 12 volt average output. A capacitor is used to smooth the otherwise choppy & noisy output.
Never used, No affiliation, Just searched.
Which shows at least somebody provides something. Everyone else I checked, like Podtronics amongst others, are totally silent on exactly how they regulate. Potentially they do the same but who knows.
Shorting is an evil approach in a modern age in my opinion, remember the good old Zener diode on Nortons.
Actually, for those of us running LED lighting, some of the other gadgets they sell look pretty interesting too.

Cheers - Steve
 

Monkeypants

Well Known and Active Forum User
Non-VOC Member
There has been a lot of discussion of this on the Norton site. In theory, the shorting regs are often viewed as a bad thing.
In practice, they seem to work just fine and last a very long time.
If opting for a Shindengen, beware, there are lots of fake Shindengen regs out there! Also, Shindengen makes both types, switching and shorting regs. Some have purchased the shorting regs thinking it was a switching reg.
Either way they seem to work.
So do the Podtronics regs.

Glen
 
Last edited:

oexing

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
In some previous threads I have suggested an alternative to Podtronics or any other miserable "regulators" that turn a lot of power into heat. I had a typical regulator from motorbike business but that in very short time heated up itself plus the permanent magnet servo motor that I will use for generator on the Vincent. My thinking was to not get a regulator again which cuts all power above 14 V and cannot use whatever may come above that limit when revs exceed 14 V. So my set uses a three phase rectifier at € 5.- and a voltage converter from 48 V to 13.8 V suitable for 280 Watt. This is ca. € 18.- from Aliexpress and I did another generator test with these electronics on a common alternator as installed on China engines or XT/SR 500 and all. Load was three H 4 quartz bulbs at some 200 W and after a 20 minutes run no temperature at the converter at all, no cooling in my workshop . The rectifier needs mounting on a piece of alu I guess, got a little warm with this load. The coils in this generator had 65 degrees C after 20 minutes so no problem here as well. My guess with that generator , it will output 250 Watts, no heat problems with my set, unlike with some systems which need oil cooling in the crank mounted generator by shorting one or two phases - as I found with the primitive typical regulator of first test.

Vic

voltage converter at Aliexpress:
48 V to 13.8 V converter

P1080720.JPG


P1070265.JPG


P1070256.JPG
 

oexing

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Why should it ? I don´t care if the generator does 50 V , would be a pity if it wastes all power by dumping it into heat when exceeding 14 V . So my guess I can get more power out of it when it is able to go a lot higher and in next stage convert it to 13.8 V for battery charging. How the converter does it I don´t know, its the converter´s job. Anyway, heat is NO concern with my setup, neither in the windings nor in the two electronic boxes - at no real costs and so simple to connect.
The square motor above does a lot more power than the Alton, above 200 W at ca. € 70.- with postage. My final finish this week for these on the Vincent engine is below - to look more traditional. Smaller than the Miller dynamo and multiple power at 14 V , no brushes. Got two motors in two lengths, same cross section. The longer type is way more powerful than I´ll ever need. Sorry, no photo of the longer type, same look, just longer.
I´d be interested to hear about connecting the boxes to an Alton and what power they can do, one two three phase does not matter.

Vic
P1080801.JPG



P1080805.JPG
 
Top