Misc: Charging Systems Alton generator

Chris Launders

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
The recent thread on generators has prompted me to have a look at the Alton that came with my twin and wasn't working, it's a 3 phase direct drive unit (no gearbox) and looks rather fried inside but is showing 0.7 ohm across all three phases and no short to earth, does anybody know what it should read before I try to rig up a drive to test if it will work at all.
Chris.
 

oexing

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Measuring resistance would not help much, the low number of windings has very low ohm readings anyway. I´d just test it by driving it with a hand drill and hook a bulb on it for seeing if performance is acceptable.
Would you care to post a few pictures about innards of the Alton ?

Vic
 

Chris Launders

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
This should give you some idea of what mine looks like.
Chris.
 

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Chris Launders

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
I stand corrected, I've marked the drive end and the wiring end and it's 1:2 .
I will rig up a drive tomorrow, just on the off chance it's ok.
 

bmetcalf

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
This won’t be much help, due to my so-called memory, but I needed to crimp another terminal on my Alton lead and discovered that I had to scrape the insulating enamel off the end of the lead.
 

Marcus Bowden

VOC Hon. Overseas Representative
VOC Member
Chris my handsome, Herve' Hamon handed me the latest 3 phase Altons and fitted it and managed to get from home to the French rally near Patric Godet's village but travelling at night so I wasn't generating and battery was fading so stopped and slept under the hedge, Christine wasn't too pleased, recharged battery and made it back to Cornwall via Dover each time. Poor system that was but still running 1 : 2 gearbox type but fitted with filler plug and level plug gears running in oil, took a previous one out with me to the 2007 Australian rally as I was loaning a rap but knew generation was not good did 6k + miles and it is still working back in NZ. They are like any electric drill / angle grinder with a gearbox using grease it flings out , dries out and the Alton nylon gear melts. I changed two for South London members here and order a spare each time.


28007
 

Monkeypants

Well Known and Active Forum User
Non-VOC Member
Here's my timeline for Vincent Altons.
Im a bit fuzzy on actual dates, but pretty sure the order of appearance is correct.
In 2005 my original Miller went Afro with its windings when I decided to catch a Harley that had passed by us on a hill.
The high RPM was too much for the old thing.

I had read about the Altons, which at that time were direct drive and single phase. I think these were a reliable unit, but they were said to be a bit low in output at lower rpm, maybe not much better than the original dynamos. 150 watts was the rated output,
but that may have been at 100 mph!
I contacted Alton and talked with Paul Hamon.
He said he had designed a new Alton that was a 3 phase unit and would have much greater low speed output than the earlier single phase direct drive.
I purchased one of these and installed it.
I do not recall this unit having an internal step up trans like the one in Marcus's photo.
That looks like the next iteration ( single phase ) to me.
But I could be wrong, it's a long time ago.
The 3 phase would charge ok when cold but steadily lost its ability to charge as it warmed up.
After 30 minutes of riding the system was discharging at all RPMs.
Paul Hamon and I had lots of conversations as we tried to iron out what was happening.
I changed voltage regs from the Podtronics ( my choice) to the units he provided at that time ( not Podtronics)
Nothing worked.
After several months of struggling with this , Paul told me " There is a problem with the three phase unit and I'm not sure what it is.
I'm giving up on that unit but I have designed a new single phase unit with stronger magnets plus an internal transmission to step up alternator RPM. I'll send you one"

I installed that one (2006?) and it made power like crazy, balanced a 100 watt electrical load just off idle.
I was very happy with the output but at about 5000 miles the gears lost their teeth.
Paul sent me new gears and instructed to clean the unit scrupulously then pack with the grease he had provided.
About 4 thousand more miles down the road the gears went again.
Paul said " I've abandoned the unit with transmission but will send you my new unit that is direct drive, single phase with very strong magnets" This might have been in 2009 or thereabouts.
I have had that unit running for 30,000 miles now and like it a lot. It isn't as powerful as the stepped up unit, but it's plenty powerful. I've also put one of these on the 1360 Special. It's driven off the double toothed primary belt.
The simplicity of direct drive is hard to beat.
I did have the problem with the Ballistic Battery meltdown taking out the whole charging system, but that was my own fault.
Although the seller assured me that the Ballistic battery was a great choice for the bike, they aren't correct at all.
Ballistic is bankrupt, but Shorai now states on their website " do not install this battery in a vehicle with a charging system that produces less than 13.1 volts at idle"
That would be an Alton or most other Vintage bike charging devices, save perhaps a Walkenator which might produce 13.1 at idle.

I recently tried to resurrect the old stepped up unit with 4140 steel gears and gear oil sump, but that failed in a short time as well.

So that is a history of the Vincent Alton as I know it.
When you purchase an Alton today, you pay something for the unit and something for the thousands of hours of design and redesign that it has taken to get to the reliable and powerful unit of today.
With that in mind they are priced quite fairly.

Glen
 
Last edited:

Little Honda

Well Known and Active Forum User
Non-VOC Member
Here's my timeline for Vincent Altons.
Im a bit fuzzy on actual dates, but pretty sure the order of appearance is correct.
In 2005 my original Miller went Afro with its windings when I decided to catch a Harley that had passed by us on a hill.
The high RPM was too much for the old thing.

I had read about the Altons, which at that time were direct drive and single phase. I think these were a reliable unit, but they were said to be a bit low in output at lower rpm, maybe not much better than the original dynamos. 150 watts was the rated output,
but that may have been at 100 mph!
I contacted Alton and talked with Paul Hamon.
He said he had designed a new Alton that was a 3 phase unit and would have much greater low speed output than the earlier single phase direct drive.
I purchased one of these and installed it.
I do not recall this unit having an internal step up trans like the one in Marcus's photo.
That looks like the next iteration ( single phase ) to me.
But I could be wrong, it's a long time ago.
The 3 phase would charge ok when cold but steadily lost its ability to charge as it warmed up.
After 30 minutes of riding the system was discharging at all RPMs.
Paul Hamon and I had lots of conversations as we tried to iron out what was happening.
I changed voltage regs from the Podtronics ( my choice) to the units he provided at that time ( not Podtronics)
Nothing worked.
After several months of struggling with this , Paul told me " There is a problem with the three phase unit and I'm not sure what it is.
I'm giving up on that unit but I have designed a new single phase unit with stronger magnets plus an internal transmission to step up alternator RPM. I'll send you one"

I installed that one (2006?) and it made power like crazy, balanced a 100 watt electrical load just off idle.
I was very happy with the output but at about 5000 miles the gears lost their teeth.
Paul sent me new gears and instructed to clean the unit scrupulously then pack with the grease he had provided.
About 4 thousand more miles down the road the gears went again.
Paul said " I've abandoned the unit with transmission but will send you my new unit that is direct drive, single phase with very strong magnets" This might have been in 2009 or thereabouts.
I have had that unit running for 30,000 miles now and like it a lot. It isn't as powerful as the stepped up unit, but it's plenty powerful. I've also put one of these on the 1360 Special. It's driven off the double toothed primary belt.
The simplicity of direct drive is hard to beat.
I did have the problem with the Ballistic Battery meltdown taking out the whole charging system, but that was my own fault.
Although the seller assured me that the Ballistic battery was a great choice for the bike, they aren't correct at all.
Ballistic is bankrupt, but Shorai now states on their website " do not install this battery in a vehicle with a charging system that produces less than 13.1 volts at idle"
That would be an Alton or most other Vintage bike charging devices, save perhaps a Walkenator which might produce 13.1 at idle.

I recently tried to resurrect the old stepped up unit with 4140 gears and gear oil sump, but that failed in a short time as well.

So that is a history of the Vincent Alton as I know it.
When you purchase an Alton today, you pay something for the unit and something for the thousands of hours of design and redesign that it has taken to get to the reliable and powerful unit of today.
With that in mind they are priced quite fairly.

Glen
Were you repairing a puncture, when the Harley passed you?
 
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