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AHRMA Gingerman 2019


davidd

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Gingerman Raceway is in Michigan and is a nice track, as I remember it, but very flat. Here is a link to the layout:


Today's race went well and it took a while to get the gearing correct. Alex McLane on the Norton was first, David Tompkins was second , David Roper was third and Scott was fourth. David Roper is on the Dondolino:
Dave Roper Dondolino 2019.jpg
David Tompkins was able to lower his lap time 6 seconds from last year, which is a nice jump.
Gingerman 2019  (1).jpg

David
 

davidd

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
The Sunday races turned out the same as Saturday's in terms of order with Alex, Dave T., Dave R. and Scott finishing 1 through 4. Alex now feels he should be in all the Vincent photos!

20190804_095530.jpg

David
 
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davidd

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
How non-standard is the Norton motor? Is it a short stroke?
I would say that it is very standard. You are not allowed to change the stroke. That said, it has been updated every way possible that the rules allow. Stu Rogers built the bike originally and raced it in AHRMA for Bob McKeever. Maurice Candy took over the building in recent years and Maurice is a master also.

The Vincent motors are also pretty standard. A stock Carrillo rod, a new CP piston and the intake valve is 2" instead of 1.88". Stock Maughan gears and a Megacycle Mk2.

I should mention that Dave dropped another three seconds off his lap time on Sunday. That means he went from 2:11 last year to 2:02.

David
 

BigEd

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VOC Member
VOC Forum Moderator
........ Stu Rogers built the bike originally and raced it in AHRMA for Bob McKeever. Maurice Candy took over the building in recent years and Maurice is a master also.

I should mention that Dave dropped another three seconds off his lap time on Sunday. That means he went from 2:11 last year to 2:02.

David
I bumped into Stu Rogers a couple of weeks ago at the Vintage Club's Founder's Day Rally. We had a good old chat about our past involvement in Vintage Racing.
He told me he is keeping busy, he has over 20 Norton engines to build!

Well done to Dave Tompkins. In an era when 0.1 seconds is a significant improvement, he must be very pleased with his outstanding reduction in lap time.
 
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timetraveller

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Meanwhile this side of the pond I recently heard from Mike Hawthorne. He already held the lap record for the Chimay track for his class with his Comet/GreyFlash 500. He tells me that he just knocked two seconds off that time so congratulations to him.
 

Nulli Secundus

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VOC Member
VOC Forum Moderator
Meanwhile this side of the pond I recently heard from Mike Hawthorne. He already held the lap record for the Chimay track for his class with his Comet/GreyFlash 500. He tells me that he just knocked two seconds off that time so congratulations to him.
Did he tell you about his crankcases Norman?
 

greg brillus

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Interesting thing....."Lap times"...... I've found you definitely seem to get better times when you are in close competition with someone rather than out front and on your own. Just as an example.........the small track we race at Stanthorpe, which is only a 1000 meter circuit, we race at about twice a year. The lap record for the older period 3 bikes from 1946 to 1962 is a 37.6 second lap. This was done by one of our now retired members on his 500 twin Triumph, both the bike and he were very competitive. Back in 2016 when I still had the Vincent racer, I managed a 37.7 second lap..........This was against others on 650 pre-unit Triumph twins. On my current bike which is a slimline Norton with a 500 ESO/Jawa speedway engine, the best lap I have done is a 38.1 and this proves that having the extra power definitely helps to get better lap times, even though the Vincent was much heavier. I have been trying to learn better body position, that is getting my butt off to one side and my knee down somewhat, but at the last race meeting a couple of weeks back, my lap times did not improve at all, and in fact my fastest lap was a 38.4..... It is obvious that to make up extra 10ths of seconds in corners is going to the next level of confidence that i am still struggling to get to.......It is very impressive to watch others who are very confident at fast cornering, and to see how much confidence they have in their tires, as you can see by the sides of the tire very shredded up.............Reg Bolton told me many times that it is all psychological, and I'm convinced he is correct 100%............
 

timetraveller

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Hi Dave, no I haven't heard about the crankcases. Do tell. I do know that he has split two different UFM with a combination of high revs and cornering forces.
Regarding Greg's comments re lap times, he might be right. I do know that Mike often rides with a GoPro, or similar, on his bike. In every video of his I have seen he just overtakes everyone else, straights, corners, inside and outside. As I have said to him the rest of the competitors must hate him. Perhaps this time he had someone who pushed him but I also know that there was another mod to the engine which might have helped.
 

timetraveller

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
If there is any good news at all in this it is that the VOCSC recently had ten new Comet crank cases made and when I was talking to them a couple of months ago the had not sold any. Whether the new crank cases have been beefed up compared with the originals I don't know but if they have then maybe now is a good time for some Club sponsorship.
 

timetraveller

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Was that a new or a seventy years old crank case? If one of the new batch then that would seem to be a dead end.
 

bmetcalf

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
From reading the VOC Facebook page, the ten mile crank failed, so not many crankcases could withstand that.
 

davidd

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
It is a 600cc. Mike seems to run only at Belgium in the Gr2 class. I don't know what that is, but he seems to be running "unscored". He is blindingly fast. I saw him race at Daytona in the 1980's.

If the big end went then the piston probably smashed the head enough times to pull the studs up and the crankcase bits would go with them. This happened to me at Road America in 2009, but it was a 500 and I caught it quickly. Still, at 90 mph the damage can happen very fast.

David
 

Bill Thomas

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I had the head of a valve come off once, The piston came up, Folded the head of the valve in the middle and shoved it back up the hole, What a mess. Cheers Bill.
 

vibrac

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I have seen a BS head where a valve went though the exhaust port roof and out o
Into the fresh air leaving a neat 3/8 hole in the roof I think the valve head bounced around on the piston a bit but all repairable tuff stuff these old vinnys
 

davidd

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
When the big end clearances get big the rod goes higher and the squish becomes a hammer pounding on the head. The valves tend to bend or break. Mine bent.
04.jpg

01.jpg

You can see where the squish bands are colliding and the valves are smashing into the piston cut outs. This puts a lot of shock loading on the studs.

David
 

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