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2 start oil pumps

Puddle jumper

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
Hi guys,
What are the views on 2 start oil pumps or changing the oil pump for a gear type pump,
Also, what about fitting valve oil seals?
Cheers Paul
 

John Appleton

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Hi guys,
What are the views on 2 start oil pumps

If the standard oil pump was known to have shortcomings then I would be the first to change it . However, they dont have, so stay as standard and enjoy the ride. Valve stem oil seals are a different matter altogether. Fit them and slash oil consumption, eliminate one cause of oil smoke, improve idling by reducing air ingress at inlet valve stem, improve plug life and cold starting and again, enjoy the ride.
John
 

Len Matthews

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Two start Oil Pumps came about when the Factory was developing the Picador engine. That had to run flat out continuously, something a bike rarely does. For all practical purposes the standard pump is perfectly adequate. One useful idea some riders have adopted is to fit a filter in the return line to the tank, bearing in mind that what the scavange side of the pump picks up from the bottom of the crankcase may be full of you-know-what. A magnetic drain plug is a must. Installing a gear pump would be a major engineering task although I think it has been done. Beneficial or not? Comments please.
 
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Tnecniv Edipar

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
I'm not so sure about the oil pump. One of the reasons modern engines are so durable is the high rate of oil flow generated by efficient gear or lobe type pumps. I've always been curious why PCV went for the ancient type of pump he did. As far as I can determine it could be a weakness of the Vincent , they seem to have issues with cam wear , valve train wear and the oil takes an age to heat up which shows that circulation is slow. Correct me if I'm wrong though , those with more experience may be able to prove my view to be incorrect ?
 

bmetcalf

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
The roller main and rod bearings only need a small quantity of oil and would actually fail if given oil at the pressure and flow a modern high performance engine delivers. I assume that PEI put some good thinking into the plunger pump that was selected, since the pre-war bikes had a gear pump and they didn't stay with it.
 

Tnecniv Edipar

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
I know that roller bearings use less pressure, but it's flow I'm talking about. The bevel cam drive Ducati's have a roller bearing big end and ball bearing crank , but they use a high flow gear pump , pressure is less than 15 psi.
 

clevtrev

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Two start Oil Pumps came about when the Factory was developing the Picador engine. That had to run flat out continuously, something a bike rarely does. For all practical purposes the standard pump is perfectly adequate. One useful idea some riders have adopted is to fit a filter in the return line to the tank, bearing in mind that what the scavange side of the pump picks up from the bottom of the crankcase may be full of you-know-what. A magnetic drain plug is a must. Installing a gear pump would be a major engineering task although I think it has been done. Beneficial or not? Comments please.
Not quite right Len. The Picador ran a two start worm wheel on a single start pump.
 

Puddle jumper

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
Hi Guys

How about this for an idea, fit a 2 start pump, valve stem oil seals and feed the rockers from the main side of the pump, not on the return side, giving better flow to the cams which need all the oil they can get, via the rockers, push rods ect. Then fit an oil filter to the return side before the oil reaches the tank.
Feeding the rockers from the pressure side of the pump is Steve Hamel's idea, not mine, sounds good to me,
What are your thoughts guys.

Cheers Paul
 
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roy the mechanic

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
puddle jumper hybrid

Hi Paul, I tend to agree with 2 start oil pump. My rapide worries me every time i look at the rate of oil retuning to the tank. To quote the prophet"I reckon i can p-ssQuicker!" Valve stem seals highly recommended on exhaust as well if you run total seal rings[ read the instuctions] they are worth a good few h.p, won hundreds of international races with them! you already have a tidy oil filter in as standard, can't see any advantage in messing there. Oil supply on return line well tested for top end especially with extra capacity of 2 start pump. Be Lucky ,Roy.
 

dave g6xnc

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
Oil pumps

many years ago in MPH Phil irving wrote about oil pmps and related about the pump body being set a few degrees from right angles so the drive worm mated with the pump plunger. In the early B', this worm was bronze. he wrote that that a chap in Aus with a brand new twin had the worm strip and wrote to the works about it under warrenty saying it obviously wopuld as the drive angle was at right angles. Irving wrote back enclosing a new worm and pointing out about the angle of the body. I have often wondered what the poor bloke must have thought with a brand new siezed lump and the factory sent a new worm! with a bike the price of a house u/s!.
dave gs.
 

Alan J

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Oil pumps e.t.c.

I have not found that the cams wear out, only that the cam bushes do!! but then I have only done 170,000 miles-- nothing compared to Stuart Jenkinson!! I use 20\50 multigrade oil, which I know is a sin in many peoples eyes--but the proof of the pudding is in the eating!!
 

mercurycrest

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Hi Guys

How about this for an idea, fit a 2 start pump, valve stem oil seals and feed the rockers from the main side of the pump, not on the return side, giving better flow to the cams which need all the oil they can get, via the rockers, push rods ect. Then fit an oil filter to the return side before the oil reaches the tank.
Feeding the rockers from the pressure side of the pump is Steve Hamel's idea, not mine, sounds good to me,
What are your thoughts guys.

Cheers Paul

Probably a good idea if you plan on running your Vincent at 8,000 RPM too. Otherwise, why bother?
Cheers, John:cool:
 
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