Misc: Everything Else 1951 Black Shadow Restoration

greg brillus

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Craig, Just reading back to your previous posts, If using the thicker ET 77 enables you to do away with a shim washer, then do that. The less extra packers/shims in there the better.........They don't normally give any trouble, but if the ESA nut loosens for whatever reason, the thin parts tend to start wearing away more so than the other more substantial parts.
 

craig

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Engine paint research has found a "new to me" Eastwood product that is high temp, gloss black, brushable engine paint. i have a concern of spraying into finned areas and not getting coverage,
I haven't bought any yet, just looking.


EastwoodGlBlkBrush2.jpgEastwoodActivator1.jpg
 
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craig

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After stacking the two different "distance pieces" ET77 and setting the new roller in place, it seems to me that the thicker ET77 will place the new rollers right at the edge of the new outer race.
The thinner ET77 will place rollers .030" inside the race, but it needs a shim at the crank.
These distance views are based on the new outer roller race being flush with the inside case.

What is a common shim thickness spec for this ET92/flywheel location?

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craig

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Measurements show that the new outer roller race for ET92, will be proud of the inside case by .010".
Depth of left engine case to aluminum ET19 is about 0.614"
 
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timetraveller

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I would prefer to see the rollers below the rim of the outer race rather than proud. The original inner main bearings had a reduced width outer race and nowadays a lot of people prefer to modify the spacer between the bearings so that one can use a full width bearing with the rollers inside the outer race. It is one of the known problems with Vins that the drive side inner race outer will work its way inwards fouling the crank pin nut and opening up the bearing housing in the crank case.
 

oexing

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I preferred not to use these obsolete types of roller bearings, see the number of rollers ? And more so, no plain outer race for sure, but lipped types , in the gear box as well. So no reason for that dreadful staking crime to engines. I wonder if that staking was practice in other British factories like BSA, Triumph etc ? A real disgrace to any engineer or designer I´d say .

Vic
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craig

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I preferred not to use these obsolete types of roller bearings, see the number of rollers ? And more so, no plain outer race for sure, but lipped types , in the gear box as well. So no reason for that dreadful staking crime to engines. I wonder if that staking was practice in other British factories like BSA, Triumph etc ? A real disgrace to any engineer or designer I´d say . Vic
Hi Vic, These rollers look great. Are they direct replacements for existing sizes?
Closer exam seems to show custom inserts in gear box.
Thanks
Craig
 
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craig

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Is there a special, removable plug that can be installed in the 0.705" tunnel allowing left hand kick start shaft conversion?
I have not used one in the past, but today is a new thought.
Thank you
Craig
 

greg brillus

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VOC Member
Craig, everyone has difficulty painting the heads and barrels due to the depth of the fins, the factory dipped these parts in a bath of paint. You just need to aim the spray directly into the base of the fins.....this is where a good "Solids based paint" is far better than thin watered down paints.........It is why I prefer to get the parts painted professionally using 2 pac euro-thane paints instead of thin spray can paints. That is just my opinion, and I've had no problems so far........... Make up a round bung from a piece of hardwood dowel to be a nice tap fit into the kickstart passageway......... I do this after using this hole with a sprag tool and a length of round bar to fully tighten the ESA nut first. The punch marks Vic is upset about were there to simply hold the bearing from falling out on a hot case.........This more so on the timing side case........after you install the gearbox bearings say, then flip the case over to install the spindles........Using whatever gauges for depth, but you also use a hammer........these shocks will make the gearbox bearings fall out........The punch marks you often see now are way too excessive.......that is because people are using this because the bearings have come loose in the case. I've seen some that were a 1/4" round punch diameter, and the results are, when installing the inner race it notches its way in like a ratchet. You have to be careful using lipped bearings, I've also seen them used and the over all width of the crank and these lipped races was wider than the bolted up cases......Thereby actually holding the cases slightly apart.......not good.........I cannot see any advantage in using them at all......Far better off using back to back taper rollers on the drive side............You don't need to reinvent the wheel.......These engines are old, some had terrible abuse, not looked after at all......If you put everything together carefully with good parts, and a good crank, the engine will last far longer than you.
 

oexing

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The lipped roller bearings are all metric with PA 66 gf cages, sizes 30-62-20 resp. 16 mm. The positive thing is you can sleeve fu***d up bores for mains from 63.5 to 62 without weakening the case again by oversize boring for a 63.5 mm sleeve for original size. You then could have the mainshaft sleeved from 1 " /25.4mm for new 30 mm inner race, all to restore exact fits - without Loctite or staking marks, so with a hot engine no race walk will happen. Lipped roller bearings are no different to work out for side play and depths in cases than with ball bearings so no reason for unlipped races on the outer - plus safety (certainly :) ) staking circumference of bores. Another choice is the 25-62-17 or -24 mm sizes, same sleeve from 63.5mm to 62 bore. The inner race could be opened for 25.4 mm standard mainshaft for half thou shrink fit. I do all engines with roller bearings with rollers contained in outer race, a lot easier to handle and slick to put together. Have never come across types with rollers on inner race fixed, not very common here. Also these PA 66 modern bearings can take a LOT higher loads than the ancient steel cage relics.
When having the metric lipped outer races with rollers you do assembly a bit different to normal practice as the oil pump worm will not pass the rollers later. So first drop in the smaller outer roller bearing, drop in the worm, then the inner main bearing with its rollers. You have to line up the worm for the key on the mainshaft and look there when lowering the upper engine half so it slips down and through the inner race of the small outer bearing. Seems tricky but I had no problem with it, the inner race of the small bearing a push fit on the main by some polishing done.
When races fall out of bores when turning over a hot case - reason for staking (??) - this would be another telltale for dodgy machining. You only need extra high heat for fitting follower spindles at 200 degrees but you do this job at the start of rebuilding. So later all fits for bearings should be allright up to 100 degrees without dropping out else you´d get walking races with operating engines from correct shrink fits gone - or never achieved at all. As to Loctites, for tricky fits the type 620 and 640 offer extra slow curing times for dropping races into a hot case or for follower spindles too. Important point, you got to have the engine cases at minimum operating temperatures, so at least 100 degrees I´d say for loctiting bearing races etc . . If you do this at room temps the glued race will be loose with a hot engine as the alu case will grow a gap to the less expanding steel race. The Loctite is not a real glue but will just fill all gaps and cracks and pores and its strength is in shear loads, not glue power.
Taper roller mains are not my thing, you´d be very sure to get preloads on the bearings at cold engine right, else they will be sloppy at hot conditions - less critical with narrow cranks like Velocettes or HDs but even more questionable with wide cranks on Vincent twins. And not as easy spinning as cylindrical rollers I´d believe. Spacing taper rollers in the engine is a bit lengthy to do compared to ball or roller bearings. For the Vincent engines I made copies of all bearings from POM rounds, easy slip fit in bores and shafts, but exact width of actual bearings for getting all sizes of spacers . That is simple to fabricate with a lathe and saves a lot of head scratching and you can do trial assembly of gearbox contents too. You could sand down old bearing races for same trial assemblies but the POM bits are just great for this job.

Vic
Loctite retaining compounds from page 127 .
 
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