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Misc: Everything Else 1951 Black Shadow Restoration

craig

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
20201220_ProjectShadow51.jpg

I was offered a Black Shadow project in 2013. I purchased the project and immediately started work on it.
Took the cylinders and heads to local Vincent machinist only 3 hrs away.
Crankshaft had been completed ,prior to my purchase, by a Canadian expert and also the tank was painted and done by "Bones".
Then, another Vincent project came up, Then a buddy stopped by and said" Go buy a BMW and lets travel the USA".
Then I got a wild hair and wanted to do the Trans America Trail (TAT). So I purchased a Husqvarna 701E and proceeded to farkle it out for the off road journey. So the Shadow was boxed up for another day.

All that behind, I am now focused on this Shadow project.
The pic above shows the big stuff with a thousand other pieces and projects in boxes.

My goal is a street friendly Black Shadow to ride on a semi daily basis, couple times a week.
 
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oexing

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I did not fit that felt "seal" at all, there is no oil nearby. The assembly is sort of labyrinth even without felt and not a lot of dirt will find its way under the kickstart cover . A bit pointless in my eyes.

Vic
 

craig

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
To make my fit of G52 felt seal to please me, I decided to shave some felt off the OD.

20210508_G52Shaving.jpg
I also used my grinder wheel as well, both at the end seemed to take off about 0.025" from the thickness.
Worked out very well.
 

vibrac

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
With regard to the bottom tube seal I am beginning to think that the real culprit is not the pushrod tubes or the standard seals (and I have tried new tubes and all the options from O rings to special seals) or what glue you add to the assembly the fact that all my engines are oil tight there except one(and its not a 'D') is leading me to think the fault lies in the shape of the crankcase recess even given I cant see it. anyway as I said on another thread, sod it it can weep this season I am riding.
I seems I cant leave things alone, A few days the cold and now the rain sent me back to the workshop with the Comet. I was not happy with the ignition timing for the starting so I retimed it at the 4deg closed ATD ran it on the bench (electric start) all Ok. Then I absentmindedly wiped the offending (rear) pushrod tube and seal of all oil and left it. I did it again on the following day and suddenly thought "I am sure I did that yesterday! This time I spent some time with rag and petrol and it was really oil free when I left it, and guess what? this morning its oily again all around the seal at the bottom of the tube and the engine has not run...
So perhaps its the top seal and not the bottom seal that has been the object of all my ire now a top seal is repairable in situe I wonder...
 

greg brillus

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Tim Just undo the gland nut, use some brake cleaner in a spray can and flush the thread area up in the hole, dry off with compressed air.....Wipe a smear of threebond or similar sealant around the very top of the gland nut, not so much on the threads, then wind the nut back up into the head and tighten. Wipe off any excess sealant and wait a while for the sealer to go off........ All should be well.
 

oexing

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Keep sealant free from the thread as it could be a challenge to undo the nut later. You might be lucky with trying several windings of teflon tape around the shroud and compress the lot by tightening the nut. You cannot do wrong with this, easily done.

Vic
 

Doug

New Website User
VOC Member
It appears to me the only ability to adjust the gap on an Alton install,
shown above as 0.090", would be the ability to move the pre installed shaft hub.
This Alton shaft hub does not appear to be movable.
So the "gap" is fixed gap for each Vincent twin install.

View attachment 41724


So this 0.090" gap must be pretty standard fare for Vincent twin.

20210421_altonfitup1-jpg.41710
You can pull the sprocket holder off the Alton shaft then trim the shoulder back .09" if you have a Lathe. Then move the Alton in more.
 

oexing

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Problem with pushrod shrouds is you cannot be sure that all faces align well enough for flat seals. That is dependend on compression plates and all, also the machining of shroud ends. So I decided on spherical washers on top of shrouds so misalignment is taken care of this and the shroud does not put sideloads on seals down low in the recesses of engine case. The o-ring on top of the nut is allright with misalignments, you just do the nut up with some respect to the rubber seal.

Vic
P1080898.JPG

P1080901.JPG
 

craig

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
You can pull the sprocket holder off the Alton shaft then trim the shoulder back .09" if you have a Lathe. Then move the Alton in more.
Is the Alton shaft stepped so the sprocket holder is returned to the same depth?
Have you been able to do this trim?
Any pics please?
Thank you
Craig
 

craig

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Problem with pushrod shrouds is you cannot be sure that all faces align well enough for flat seals. That is dependend on compression plates and all, also the machining of shroud ends. So I decided on spherical washers on top of shrouds so misalignment is taken care of this and the shroud does not put sideloads on seals down low in the recesses of engine case. The o-ring on top of the nut is allright with misalignments, you just do the nut up with some respect to the rubber seal. Vic

Thanks Vic, Is there a standard o-ring size for this application, maybe an AS568 number?
Cheers
Craig
 

timetraveller

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Going back to the original question concerning the gap at the alternator interface; there is a problem here which I had to face up to when I made the 'Walkernators'. There are at least three diffent finishes to the rear of that casting. Some are totally flat, some have a 'cone' shape machined in and some have a 'cone' shape cast in and not all those are the same. My solution was to provide a 'squishy' 'o' ring with each kit. This was either a length of very soft 'o'ring material which had to be cut to length and then have the ends glued to make the 'o' ring. That was for those using engine oil in the primary chain case. For those using ATF I provided a length of hollow silicon rubber tubing which, once again, had to be cut to length and the ends glued with clear silicon mastic. Both items were easily compressible so that the body of the drive system, that is the item which replaces the original dynamo, could be pushed in and out to get the sprocket lined up with the middle chain run. A ninety thou gap is not a lot but something similar could easily be made.
 

oexing

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Craig, about the o-ring, just get a cross section that will slip over the shroud and into the recess above the nut thread in the head. It will squash by force of the nut and seal hopefully. Misalignment of faces will not matter with this combination I´d think.
What puzzled me when assembling the first engine is the offset of recess for the lower shroud seal relative to the cam follower cup. I made alu 10x2 mm pushrods so for having clearance I made offset seal holders with an o-ring for the shroud. This was a mistake in the factory seemingly - or did they rectify this with later engines ?

Vic
P1070727.JPG

P1070802.JPG
 

vibrac

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Well I followed the advice and droped the pushrod tube the tube stoped its decent with the top flange still in the cavity so I could do nothing about the top washer embedded as per usual in the top of the recess nor could I anoint the top face/flange of the tube I could however clean the lower washer and add some blue googe and screw back up with some grease on the nut thread thankfully its a brass nut and not one of those stainless interlopers lets see what tomorrow brings
 

craig

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Mounting the 12v 200w Podtronics out of sight and enabling the look of a stock Miller regulator.

Battery tray off bike
2ea 3/4" Adel type clamps - Lowes
2ea 6mm x 25 mm bolts with nyloc nuts

20210526_173212.jpg20210526_174041.jpg

Battery tray back on bike for mock up.
Route the Podtronics colorful wires to the forward to allow hook up in the "empty" Miller regulator.

20210526_180906.jpg20210526_181257.jpg

You can sheath the Podtronics wires and trim them to suit.
Add a junction block inside the empty Miller regulator.
Join Alton two wires to the Podtronics yellow.
You can figure out the needed wires.

I like the look of the finished install.
There remains room under the battery tray for the Grosset starter relay.
 
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craig

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Amal paint for vintage 229/289 pair.
I would like to restore these original Amal, what paint can I find in the USA to provide the correct color and finish.

20210528_BSPairAmal1.jpg
 

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