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Misc: Everything Else 1951 Black Shadow Restoration

craig

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VOC Member
20201220_ProjectShadow51.jpg

I was offered a Black Shadow project in 2013. I purchased the project and immediately started work on it.
Took the cylinders and heads to local Vincent machinist only 3 hrs away.
Crankshaft had been completed ,prior to my purchase, by a Canadian expert and also the tank was painted and done by "Bones".
Then, another Vincent project came up, Then a buddy stopped by and said" Go buy a BMW and lets travel the USA".
Then I got a wild hair and wanted to do the Trans America Trail (TAT). So I purchased a Husqvarna 701E and proceeded to farkle it out for the off road journey. So the Shadow was boxed up for another day.

All that behind, I am now focused on this Shadow project.
The pic above shows the big stuff with a thousand other pieces and projects in boxes.

My goal is a street friendly Black Shadow to ride on a semi daily basis, couple times a week.
 
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vibrac

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This is what I use on the camplate spindle secured by a cap screw you can then be certain its done up tightly then I take off tool place a short cap screw with a cross hole in head in the end of the spindle and wire up.
 

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craig

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20210414_spindle1-jpg.41553


This thread does not look like 1/4 bsf
 

oexing

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Check you have the spindle tight enough with a decent screwdriver. Afterwards a liquid low strength type of Loctite thread locker on the top threads is all you need. No medium strength please else you will have troubles to undo. The Loctite also seals the thread so no oil creeping out.
The design is not very great, did you feel a lot of slack in the plain bore between spindle and case ? In that condition I would possibly apply a bit of LOW strength thread locker on the shaft as well.

Vic
 

craig

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Thread tapped in G34 spindle looks like 1/4BSW, I don't have any G99 to use here.... yet.

20210413_G99DrilledScrew.jpg

Maybe trim a G99 to half length?

I have some loctite 222, but it is dated "use by 12/09".
 
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timetraveller

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To determine whether the locator spring for the cam plate is too strong just undo the lock wire and unscrew it a little. If that does not ease the cam plate rotation then you might have another problem. The top of the gearbox round the spindle really is a mess. Vibrac's suggestion, or something similar, would be a good idea, The 1/4 BSW thread is in the middle of the spindle and even when everything else is in good conditions many of us fit a short bolt and wire lock it to one of the studs which holds down the dynamo. That stops the spindle undoing. Vic's suggestion of weak Loctite would also be a good idea.
 
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greg brillus

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Craig, the center thread is 1/4 BSW same as cover screws.........Try Norman's idea for the plunger spring to see if this helps. if so, then compress the spring in the jaws of a vice until it coil binds, this should shorten it by about 2 mm or so and then it will work fine. On nearly all older engines I've found the cam plate spindle is loose.........The center bolt/lock wire trick is good.......I use a liquid thread sealant on them, just on the upper threads........this seals from an oil leak, plus helps stop it coming undone........I use a product called Cyberbond........SH 27........This is an amber color anaerobic thread sealant that is excellent........especially on fuel taps and many other oil unions on these bikes. You can smear a little around the exposed threads shown in your picture, then undo the spindle several turns to get the sealant on the upper threads of the spindle, then wind it in tight with a good screwdriver, one that you can put a spanner on if possible . Make sure you are happy with the shift of the gearbox before doing this last step.........The sealant I mentioned is great for all the oil return lines across the heads using the stock lower seals and small 1/4" dowty type seals under the bolts atop........even a tinny amount on the taper faces of the pipes them selves.......I never get any leaks from this area if this is all done carefully.
 

craig

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As a seasoned mechanic, I hate to admit this, but my gear indicator lever is off a half a gear.
Loosening G37 selector pawl plug helped with easing shift effort.
Shifting position seemed funny, I put my shiny black shift cover on then the lever.
First gear position is indicated at neutral, neutral indicated at 2nd gear, 2nd at about 2½ 3rd at 3¼ and fourth at a little past fourth.

So wiping the tears away, I am cutting the safety wire for a reinstall of gear cluster.

Here shows 2nd gear indicated


20210414_PosLeverCK1.jpg
 
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greg brillus

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Craig, no need to remove the cluster, just back out the cover screws, take out the cam plate spindle, then tap the input shaft out slightly from the right side with a soft hammer.........just move the gearset, cam plate and forks just enough to rotate the cam plate as far is it will go (best if the cover and the input shaft are fully out so you can look in to see what is going on) cam plate fully counter clockwise when viewed from above......Its good to hang a spanner or similar off the nut on the G 40 shaft to keep it fully counter clockwise from the right side. The whole job can be done quite quickly and together again in no time. Don't feel bad about it, we've all done it before........
 

craig

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Safety wire comes off fast, gear cluster pulled, cleaned sealant off engine with lacquer thinner, inspected for clean, hung weights on repositioned indicator lever, reinstalled cluster.


20210414_IndicatorWeights.jpg20210414_ResetGearCluster.jpg
 

vibrac

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When I wrote '25 years on' this month I mentioned Graham Jamesons claim that he had modified the cam plate design slightly using the then state of the art equipment and this resulted in a better gearchange. I know from experience that the 5 speed surtees box is a much better change and of course those camplate tracks are completely different. Perhaps the years of 'fun' trying to race a twin and the shortcommings of the gearbox comes down to the lack of a few alterations to a cam plate . After years if frustration I sometimes think its a problem that no end of fiddling with springs eccentric bolts and ratchet teeth can overcome
 
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craig

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So I compressed the G36/1 spring to coil bound and now it measures 18mm.
Sealed up gear box cover, sealed up the 10ea G99 screws, ck the gear indicator pattern and all is well.
1, N, 2, 3, 4 all line up as desired.
Still need safety wire cover at other end.

The shortened, by vice, G36/1 spring certainly allows easier shift.
 
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craig

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Safety wired cover now complete.
G99 to arrive today to use at G34.

I now see a thru hole drilled in ET221 Dynamo cradle to accept a wire BSW bolt inserted in to G34.
I did not notice this earlier.

20210415_WireG34.jpg
 
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craig

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First wired G34.
Not sure I like PO drilled cradle.
Not sure I like my choice of a very shortened G99 screw to use for this.
It works, but I am thinking allen head for screw and corner drill on cradle.

20210415_G34Wired1.jpg
 
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craig

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VOC Member
Primary cover trial fit, allowing me to scratch and chip some paint.
Chain and sprockets fitted.
The RFM pivot bolt washer, left side needs to be flatted on this side, otherwise scrape the paint on the primary cover.

20210415_PrimaryCoveerFit1.jpg
 
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greg brillus

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Yes you need to cut a flat on that washer........Have you tried to install either of the barrels into the crankcase mouths.........They can be a tight fit depending on who made them or if they are originals. Check the alignment of the primary sprockets........good to set up the genny and drive sprocket at this time, so you can set the correct width spacing and depth of genny sprocket with the slinger in place.........It is a good practice to trial fit things as you go, it takes a little more time, but it is worth it, and saves a bit of heart ache. If you are running the oil feeds to the rear of each cylinder then fit a piston to one rod.......no rings or clips......put the engine to BDC and mark the bore with a fine pencil or texter pen so you know how far down the piston sits at the bottom of the stroke........then you can accurately measure and work out where to drill the feed holes below the bottom piston ring.........very important........You generally need to grind a small vertical channel with a dremel to marry this up to the original feed at the rear of the case mouths.......The factory depth of these is 18 to 20 mm down from the top face of the case, but the new holes though the barrels will be lower than this. I'm away racing this weekend on the Norvin single, so I'll catch you when I get back, hopefully in one piece..........Cheers for now.........Greg.
 

oexing

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Craig,
to be open , I hate safety wires, cost me many a blood drop - but have to accept them in aviation as they are easy to check for function. But for safely locking the camplate bolt no need for that. As mentioned try a drop of mild thread locker on top windings after degreasing them and test next day. You will find the bolt will be tough for disassembling for several turns. I wonder why nobody wirelocks nyloc nuts ? They are not better than a mild to medium Loctite on a standard nut or screw. I never use nylocs anywhere, no reason to have them. There are several strengths of Loctite depending on how hard I like the locking properties.
Seems to be very common on this forum that many don´t have much faith in those chemicals and prefer lots of clumsy "safety" contraptions on their bikes when there were modern invisible alternatives. Certainly I will not pretend that Loctites are suitable for all thinkable places. You have to think about disassembly sometime later so the grade of glue may be a thing or something else for no-no to liquid lockers.

Vic
 

craig

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VOC Member
Trial fitted cylinders and heads to ensure this assembly will continue.
Fit is tight but can be tapped on and off.
Rattle can paint from Eastwood on order to finish cyl and heads.

Alton dynamo on order, Podtronics & drive sprocket included.
Forgot to inquire about Alton sealing to primary.

20210416_CylOnTrialLt.jpg
 
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Bill Thomas

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VOC Member
Craig,
to be open , I hate safety wires, cost me many a blood drop - but have to accept them in aviation as they are easy to check for function. But for safely locking the camplate bolt no need for that. As mentioned try a drop of mild thread locker on top windings after degreasing them and test next day. You will find the bolt will be tough for disassembling for several turns. I wonder why nobody wirelocks nyloc nuts ? They are not better than a mild to medium Loctite on a standard nut or screw. I never use nylocs anywhere, no reason to have them. There are several strengths of Loctite depending on how hard I like the locking properties.
Seems to be very common on this forum that many don´t have much faith in those chemicals and prefer lots of clumsy "safety" contraptions on their bikes when there were modern invisible alternatives. Certainly I will not pretend that Loctites are suitable for all thinkable places. You have to think about disassembly sometime later so the grade of glue may be a thing or something else for no-no to liquid lockers.

Vic
I think you need Nylocks on the Cam shafts and the followers, To seal with the rubbers in the T/case ?.
 

davidd

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VOC Member
Nyloc nuts are about as effective as a plain nut with a plain washer when vibrated. The big advantage of Nyloc is that you won't lose the nut. The nut will lose all of its clamping force but remain on the threaded shank. At 7000 RPM a Nyloc on a Vincent unscrews in a few seconds, depending on its location.

AHRMA does not allow the use of Nyloc nuts, which is why they are sometimes drilled for lock wire in order to pass tech inspection.

Installer skill is the limiting factor with lock wiring and chemicals. I use both, but I rely more heavily on lock wire because the visual inspection is so easy for me and Tech.

The Simmonds nuts are oil seals and not used as lock washers. The extra friction of a new nut can sometimes snap off the end of the spindle if you don't pay attention.

David
 

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