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ET: Engine (Twin) Rapide Gearbox - Very 'tight' gearchange

Phil Arundel

Active Forum User
VOC Member
#1
I have just assembled the gearbox on my Rapide and find that the gearchange is very 'tight'.
I am having great difficulty in easily selecting each gear.
The gear cluster, quadrant plate and selectors are all new.
Has anyone come across this problem & how to solve it please.
 

Bill Thomas

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
#3
I have just assembled the gearbox on my Rapide and find that the gearchange is very 'tight'.
I am having great difficulty in easily selecting each gear.
The gear cluster, quadrant plate and selectors are all new.
Has anyone come across this problem & how to solve it please.
Is it still dry on the bench ?, It might be just the pawl spring too tight ?,
They can feel tight untill they are lubed.
Cheers Bill.
 

Robert Watson

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
#4
I recently put a Quaife and new detent plunger and spring in a B Rapide. As soon as it was together I wanted to run it through the gears to be sure all was well and I didn't think it would ever change gears. I didn't recall this from the first one.
Long story short after a few miles it improved greatly and now with a few hundred on it it is 95% there.

I have always said with these old bikes, when you put new parts in them it takes a little while for them to all make friends and get to know each other, then the magic happens!

Robert
 

robmfj

Forum User
VOC Member
#5
That's encouraging Bill. I am in a similar situation having fitted a new Surtees 5 speed bundle and apart from assembly lube have found it tight (probably not "very"). Consequently, not easy to find that sweet spot with the shift mechanism. Was hoping that filled with oil and a few RPM applied it will become easier. I have been advised that it will take up to 500 miles to ease completely. The palm of my left hand suffered from constant manual turning of the clutch shaft trying to get it sweet. Then made up some lock nuts and able to spin with an air gun, this proved to me that the 5 gears and N were all there so left it at that and now having read Robert's post I am further encouraged that things can only get better. Still a ways to go before the bike will be finally up and running.
What would be the best oil for a new "tight" gearbox?
Rob
 

Bill Thomas

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
#7
It's just me, But I think engine oil is for engines, I like 80 or 90 in mine, But I have never run a 5 speed.
Maybe to start with you should do what Surtees says. Cheers Bill.
 

Robert Watson

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
#8
I run BelRay 80-90 in my gearboxes. Made for just that purpose. Not sure if this is juat a North American product but there must be an equivalent EU oil.

I have been told that multi grade engine oil are not good as the gears shred the polymer that make it go thicker..
 

oexing

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
#10
I did not like the type of detent, the pointed plunger gets a lot of side load when changing gear . And that is subject to a lot of friction in the bore. So I copied the BMW lever type for hopefully smoother shifts - at least in dry condition it works reasonably well so I am very confident . . . .
Als o the camplate does not rest on the selector forks but is fixed by a top hat nut.

Vic
P1050796.JPG
 

greg brillus

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
#11
Some gearboxes are a bit sensitive to too much pressure on the detent plunger spring, you can check easily by undoing the plunger cap G 37 a turn or so and see if this is better. The issue with the 5 speed box also is that the gears are harder to engage because the "Dogs" are much larger and fewer of them to a standard 4 speed box, so the shafts have to be rotated much more to engage and shift through the gears. Sometimes with regards to the detent spring I close it up fully in the vice and this shortens it by about a mm or so. Another trick is to change the tip shape of the plunger to a slightly more ball shape rather than such a point, this allows it to move easier as the contact area is a bit less. On some boxes with changes to the 5 speed the camplate spindle pushes down on the camplate making it hard to turn, try cracking it free a half turn and try...............It can be just the bottom of the spindle, or the tinny lip a half inch up from there that just might need a whisker removed if this is the cause. I use 80W/90 gear oil in all the bikes I do, except the racer which I used 40 weight Castor oil. Cheers..................Greg.
 

vibrac

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
#12
All good stuff especially on 5 speed but Peter did not say he had 5 speed box see post 1
 

Phil Arundel

Active Forum User
VOC Member
#14
Thank you for all the replies.
In my case the gear change is ok for 1st, neutral and 2nd gear. Selecting 3rd &4th is very difficult, as if something is binding. On closer inspection I found that the offside selector fork surface is binding on the camplate- I intend to remove some of the material from the selector fork surface to give a little more clearance.
Anyone else found this to be the case?
 

Marcus Bowden

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
VOC Executive Committee
#15
2007 doing the Irish Rally prior to the Annual in IOM my detent spring broke, start off in first then kick it into 4thand ride with foot on indicator, spent an evening fixing it with good selection of broken ESA (engine shock absorber) springs as it all had to come off anyway. When home to fit a correct new spring drilled two of the chain wheel holes larger to access with a socket, haven't done all the children's twins yet but next time they get stripped will do. It saves having to remove ESA, every thing new it is very stiff , I cut a couple of coils off if I recall.


P1070553.JPG
 

Phil Arundel

Active Forum User
VOC Member
#16
Where did you source the new parts?
Hi Peter, the parts came with the bike. I bought the Rapide as a reconstruction job.
The gear cluster is new. I found that the selector arm was fouling the quadrant plate so made an adjustment. I can now get 2,3 & 4th gear but not neutral & first. Very frustrating.
 

Bill Thomas

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
#17
Morning Phil, Is the camplate pivot pin tight in the roof of the gearbox.
Or has the boss been repaired, The hole only has to be a Nat's out , To mess things up.
Cheers Bill.
 

greg brillus

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
#18
Geez Bill, You took the words from my mouth..........That's what I was thinking too. Had one just like that late last year, the spindle boss had been extensively repaired and the fork pins and slots in the cam plate were larger than standard.............Had to remove small amounts of metal here and there to fix it.
 

Bill Thomas

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
#19
Phil, We are talking about when you move the indicator ?, And not just the outer selection part.
Cheers Bill.
 

Phil Arundel

Active Forum User
VOC Member
#20
Yes, moving the indicator. Bill, I will check your suggestion Re the cam plate pivot pin. All parts are new so I will follow your suggestions.
By the way I can now easily get 2,3&4th gears but there is some resistance which prevents selecting neutral & 1st.
Back to the garage for me .
 
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