• Welcome to the website of the Vincent H.R.D. Owners Club.

    Should you have any questions relating to the Vincent H.R.D. Owners Club, or Vincent H.R.D. motorcycles in general, please contact Graham Smith, Hon. Editor and Webmaster by calling 07977 001 025 or please CLICK HERE.

    You are unrecognised, and therefore, only have VERY restricted access to the many features of this website.

    If you have previously registered to use this forum, you should log in now. CLICK HERE.

    If you have never registered to use this website before, please CLICK HERE.

Higher volume oil pumps......

Tnecniv Edipar

Well Known and Active Forum User
Non-VOC Member
#1
Apart from the double start pump , Picador pump & the auxiliary pump based on a Honda 50 unit (name escapes me) , have there ever been any attempts at a modern , high volume , continuous supply oil pump for the post war models ? It seems to me that durability of the engines could be massively improved , especially in arduous conditions if such an improved pump was available. Cam , follower etc wear would probably be eliminated by an instant oil circulation on start up , with higher volume delivery in all conditions.

I have given it some thought , but creating such a pump , that would install in the original location , preferably without modification needs an engineers attention !!

Any thoughts anyone ?
 

dave g6xnc

Well Known and Active Forum User
Non-VOC Member
#2
oil pumps

Why is this necessary?, the picador engine was run for long periods and it was found that the off side bigend was running a bit short so the two speed
worm was devised. this engine does not require high oil pressure and many vins over the years have done colossal milages on inferior oils compared with todays products, no, what they require is warming up before high speed and riding a lot. So get out there and ride the thing and don't worry.
dave gs.
 

Tnecniv Edipar

Well Known and Active Forum User
Non-VOC Member
#3
There is a distinction between 'high pressure' & 'high volume' . Its high volume I'm advocating. There are many references to high cam & follower wear on twins , this is one indication of a problem with oil flow.
 

timetraveller

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
#4
High flow oil pumps

I have seen a solution to this which,will work but which is not necessary in my opinion. A gear type oil pump is placed between the gear which drives the magneto/distributor and that item. About 20 mm thick and about 60/70 mm diameter it wil provide all the oil you could want but you have to take a feed pipe to it and from it. Also there is the problem of a seond pump to scavenge the sump. Suitable for specials and racing engines it should not be necessary for a road bike. My recommendation is to use a twin start worm and matching pump plunger, take out all the restrictor wires from the rocker feed bolts and ensure that oil can run freely from the rockers to the cams. You will need to use seals on the lower valve guides if they are worn. Stellited cams and followers will last indefinitely with this set up. I also recommend the use of large diameter crank pins to get round the problem of the annular groove on the end of standard sized items which eventually gets filled solid with centifruged oil contaminants and blocks the feed to the big ends.
 

Tnecniv Edipar

Well Known and Active Forum User
Non-VOC Member
#5
Interesting , but I was thinking more of a better pump in the original location with no external mods and , preferably , no internal mods !! Maybe a pipe dream. Gear pumps have been produced to replace the crude & antiquated plunger types on Triumphs & Ariels , that was the type of thing I had in mind. Velo's had gear pumps , so it's surprising Mr Irving having worked at Veloce adopted a reciprocating plunger on the post war Vins.
 

timetraveller

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
#6
HIgher volume oil pumps

The problem with the original Vincent oil pump housing in the context of a gear type oil pump is its small diameter. If you get the chance look at the kind of oil pump which is used in racing car engines. This has a five lobed 'star' with curve points which sits off centered in a cylindrical, and rotatable housing. Rotation of the star rotates the outer part, which because it is offset means that the mesh between male and female teeth varies in depth and thus acts as a pump. (Think W ankel engine). This type of pump in a car engine at tick over will shift about one gallon of oil in one minute with no back pressure. Fitting such a device into the space of an original Vincent oil pump would be tricky (perhaps impossible) but cutting and either welding or bolting a down wards extension to oil pump housing would make it trivial but probably unacceptable to the majority of owners. It needs someone to make a rough and ready prototype of a size which would fit into a standard Vincent housing to determine how much oil would flow in a Vin before saying more.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Top