I rarely drink soda of any kind and definitely not a cola.
Steven
Steven
E: Engine Fuel tank needs cleaning
- Thread starter Chris.R
- Start date
Hi Chris, I use POR15 Marine Clean to degrease the tank off the bike and then de rust the tank by electrolysis. I do this because after de rusting, I line the tanks using POR15 tank liner. Many are against using liners but I'm not and dont want to get into that discussion. You can use this cleaner to clean the tank and then see how much rust there is. I'm not a fan of putting nuts or other things into the tank and shaking them about because they dont get into the nooks and crannies. I dont use acid eg vinegar because it disolves metal as well as rust and can cause pinholes in old tanks. I use electrolysis because it actually converts the rust insitu back to metal rather than dissolving it.
After degreasing the tank you can use a phosphate based "rust proofing"solution to convert the rust into a stable compound.
The roof of the tank collects a surprising amount of rust because as the tank breathes, air is drawn into the space above the fuel, the moisture condenses on the tank roof which rusts.
Hi Chris,
There are many ways to do it and I have tried a few but the most effective, cheapest and easiest I have found was as follows: Extract from article on the web
All products readily available on ebay or local DIY stores in UK. Also get rubber bungs for the fuel tap and filler openings, again cheap off ebay. Caustic soda is dead cheap and 500g is enough. It can be bought in hardware or DIY stores or eBay. Spirits of salt is also dead cheap, can be obtained similarly. Phosphoric acid: at least 40% strength is required.
Stage 1: Gunge Removal. If the tank is full of gunge then you need to use caustic soda to clean first. Fill the tank to within about three inches from the top with clean water. Then with all the safety clothing on, slowly pour the entire contents (500g) of the caustic soda crystals into the water. This will raise the water level and also heat the water up quite a bit. NEVER pour the powder into the tank and then add water.
After adding crystals to the water, top up the water level to the neck of the filler opening, covering the upper inside surface of the tank. After the liquid has cooled down a bit, the tank cap should be fitted extremely tightly and left to soak. Leave for several hours, then return suitably clad and rock the tank around a little. Carefully and slowly release any build-up of gas from the tank by slightly unscrewing the cap just a touch. Then re-fit the cap and rock the tank from end to end to fully mix the soda and water and disperse evenly.
Leave the tank for several more hours and then check it isn't leaking water. If it is you are in a bit of trouble. If the leak is very small you can place the tank in a large outer vessel to hold the leak, bearing in mind that the chemical will strip paint very effectively which might not matter at all if you are renovating the paint job later.
If it's not leaking, then simply leave to soak for another day and return again for further agitation and rocking. How many days will it be best to leave it? Well I have safely left tanks like this for about five days to get the full benefit but definitely two days to get good value and cleaning power.
When the time is up, you will have to dispose of the used soda and water. You will have to do this regardless of whatever chemical you use, so follow the recommended environmental method. Please note that this chemical solution will be still extremely strong and powerful and will not have been slaked or weakened by very much at all.
(It is worth noting that caustic soda is used in abundance to clean grease from household and industrial drains. Knowing this might give an insight to which method of disposal can be viewed as OK!)
At the end of stage one all the old petrol gunge, any previous tank sealant and quite a bit of rust will be softened, removed and flushed out with the solution. The colour and filth of the liquid which leaves the tank will amaze and inspire you to go on to the next cleaning stage; to finish this stage simply hose out tank several times with a strong jet of fresh water.
Stage 2: Rust Removal
Now we have the rust removal to do and this is the bit that I get impressed by most. Spirits of Salt is a concentrated (Fuming strength) hydrochloric acid. I use it normally for chemically cleaning toilet bowls where there has been a build up of lime scale. This is what it is sold for mainly. It is very powerful and works quickly and effectively. So as a household product, it should not be too frightening, but I must emphasise it is very, very strong and because it fumes it will choke you if you inhale the fumes. Sounds dead scary, but just be very careful, no need to become terrified.
Pour about a pint of clean water into the tank and then carefully and SLOWLY add about a third of the 500g of acid, trying to avoid inhaling the fumes. NEVER pour in the acid and then add the water for the very same reason I mentioned before with the Soda, ALWAYS Acid ONTO water.
Put rubber bung in the opening and just like before, do a slight rock of the tank and then equalise the internal pressure by loosening the fuel cap and then tightening back on firmly. Next, you have just a bit more work to do than last time as it will require the tank to be rocked, shaken and inverted to completely swill around the small amount of acid so it can work on every part of the inside areas of the tank. Do this for a few minutes, and then leave for ten minutes. Return and carefully remove the cap. By checking with a torch, you will now see how well the acid is cleaning; you will also see how that rusty tank cap is starting to look quite healthy again on the inside.
You may now add another third of the acid and continue the agitation as before and leave another ten minutes. At no time will you need to rock the tank for more than a minute so there is not much effort required if this is worrying you. Once again re-inspect the inside with the help of a bright light. At this stage you should have quite a bit of gleaming un-rusted metal tank looking at best quite like it did at manufacture. I know it's hard to believe but it will. Further acid strengthening and agitation will eventually, but still quite quickly, remove all the rust or burn it away.
I have found that NO abrasive components like shingle or bolts need to be added to bash off the rust flakes…hard to believe isn't it? But no, the rust flakes will just have disappeared, possibly leaving the inside as clean as the proverbial whistle. Once you are at a level of cleaning that you're happy with, stop the process and dispose of the acid solution, noting once again the acid is used for drain cleaning! Hose out and shake the tank thoroughly several times quite vigorously as the acid will have got into seams and will continue to etch away at the metal if left un-rinsed.
Stage 3: Nearly Finished, Etching
You now have the tank with the inside cleaner than you would have thought possible a few days earlier. You'll be pleased of course and you might simply just want to rinse out very thoroughly and go to the drying stage. Another possibility is that you might consider neutralising any possible acid with an alkali such as a small touch of household bleach and rinse again and then go to the drying stage, but whatever you choose, get to the drying stage as quickly as possible as the metal inside is likely to start rusting slowly again if left damp.
I suggest going to a further acid stage using a quick splash around of Phosphoric Acid. This type of acid is not likely to etch the metal away strongly and will create a slight surface protection if a very slight amount is not washed completely away at the final rinse. So after about 10 minutes, stop the Phosphoric acid stage and pour away this relatively weak acid. (Not quite as corrosive to yourself as the Spirits of Salt in fact it is an ingredient of fizzy drinks). One quick water rinse is all that is needed now to finish. Another thing to note is that phosphoric acid usually converts brown rust flakes to a black compound but if you have done stage 2 to a fully bright clean result, there will be no brown flakes of rust any way to convert but the bright steel can be etched with some benefit of the anti corrosion resistant skin it can produce.
Stage 4: Drying
All we have to do now is to dry out the water as quickly as possible to ward off the spoiling of the nice metal finish by rust. Shake out as much water as you can, and I find there is a point that just flipping the tank quickly but quite lightly around with the filler-hole at the lowest point is the most effective as the water flips over the slight internal edge of the hole better this way. I know this sounds obvious but it's difficult to describe.
I then use a hot air gun with the tank taps removed to get some air circulation through the tank. I stand the tank vertical so it acts like a chimney and aids the hot air movement, taking out the damp air with it. As the tank heats up quickly, it is better to try to rock the tank around at stages as the remaining water tends to puddle in crevices and when moved and spread quickly over the hot metal, it evaporates very quickly. Doing it this way, I can get a tank bone dry in about 15 minutes. Don't heat the tank continually, by the way, with the hot air gun as you might do some damage to it.
I use rubber washing up gloves when doing this and also have a hose pipe handy for flushing. I have spilt all products on a painted tank but have found if rinsed of with the hose then there is no damage.
There are many ways to do it and I have tried a few but the most effective, cheapest and easiest I have found was as follows: Extract from article on the web
All products readily available on ebay or local DIY stores in UK. Also get rubber bungs for the fuel tap and filler openings, again cheap off ebay. Caustic soda is dead cheap and 500g is enough. It can be bought in hardware or DIY stores or eBay. Spirits of salt is also dead cheap, can be obtained similarly. Phosphoric acid: at least 40% strength is required.
Stage 1: Gunge Removal. If the tank is full of gunge then you need to use caustic soda to clean first. Fill the tank to within about three inches from the top with clean water. Then with all the safety clothing on, slowly pour the entire contents (500g) of the caustic soda crystals into the water. This will raise the water level and also heat the water up quite a bit. NEVER pour the powder into the tank and then add water.
After adding crystals to the water, top up the water level to the neck of the filler opening, covering the upper inside surface of the tank. After the liquid has cooled down a bit, the tank cap should be fitted extremely tightly and left to soak. Leave for several hours, then return suitably clad and rock the tank around a little. Carefully and slowly release any build-up of gas from the tank by slightly unscrewing the cap just a touch. Then re-fit the cap and rock the tank from end to end to fully mix the soda and water and disperse evenly.
Leave the tank for several more hours and then check it isn't leaking water. If it is you are in a bit of trouble. If the leak is very small you can place the tank in a large outer vessel to hold the leak, bearing in mind that the chemical will strip paint very effectively which might not matter at all if you are renovating the paint job later.
If it's not leaking, then simply leave to soak for another day and return again for further agitation and rocking. How many days will it be best to leave it? Well I have safely left tanks like this for about five days to get the full benefit but definitely two days to get good value and cleaning power.
When the time is up, you will have to dispose of the used soda and water. You will have to do this regardless of whatever chemical you use, so follow the recommended environmental method. Please note that this chemical solution will be still extremely strong and powerful and will not have been slaked or weakened by very much at all.
(It is worth noting that caustic soda is used in abundance to clean grease from household and industrial drains. Knowing this might give an insight to which method of disposal can be viewed as OK!)
At the end of stage one all the old petrol gunge, any previous tank sealant and quite a bit of rust will be softened, removed and flushed out with the solution. The colour and filth of the liquid which leaves the tank will amaze and inspire you to go on to the next cleaning stage; to finish this stage simply hose out tank several times with a strong jet of fresh water.
Stage 2: Rust Removal
Now we have the rust removal to do and this is the bit that I get impressed by most. Spirits of Salt is a concentrated (Fuming strength) hydrochloric acid. I use it normally for chemically cleaning toilet bowls where there has been a build up of lime scale. This is what it is sold for mainly. It is very powerful and works quickly and effectively. So as a household product, it should not be too frightening, but I must emphasise it is very, very strong and because it fumes it will choke you if you inhale the fumes. Sounds dead scary, but just be very careful, no need to become terrified.
Pour about a pint of clean water into the tank and then carefully and SLOWLY add about a third of the 500g of acid, trying to avoid inhaling the fumes. NEVER pour in the acid and then add the water for the very same reason I mentioned before with the Soda, ALWAYS Acid ONTO water.
Put rubber bung in the opening and just like before, do a slight rock of the tank and then equalise the internal pressure by loosening the fuel cap and then tightening back on firmly. Next, you have just a bit more work to do than last time as it will require the tank to be rocked, shaken and inverted to completely swill around the small amount of acid so it can work on every part of the inside areas of the tank. Do this for a few minutes, and then leave for ten minutes. Return and carefully remove the cap. By checking with a torch, you will now see how well the acid is cleaning; you will also see how that rusty tank cap is starting to look quite healthy again on the inside.
You may now add another third of the acid and continue the agitation as before and leave another ten minutes. At no time will you need to rock the tank for more than a minute so there is not much effort required if this is worrying you. Once again re-inspect the inside with the help of a bright light. At this stage you should have quite a bit of gleaming un-rusted metal tank looking at best quite like it did at manufacture. I know it's hard to believe but it will. Further acid strengthening and agitation will eventually, but still quite quickly, remove all the rust or burn it away.
I have found that NO abrasive components like shingle or bolts need to be added to bash off the rust flakes…hard to believe isn't it? But no, the rust flakes will just have disappeared, possibly leaving the inside as clean as the proverbial whistle. Once you are at a level of cleaning that you're happy with, stop the process and dispose of the acid solution, noting once again the acid is used for drain cleaning! Hose out and shake the tank thoroughly several times quite vigorously as the acid will have got into seams and will continue to etch away at the metal if left un-rinsed.
Stage 3: Nearly Finished, Etching
You now have the tank with the inside cleaner than you would have thought possible a few days earlier. You'll be pleased of course and you might simply just want to rinse out very thoroughly and go to the drying stage. Another possibility is that you might consider neutralising any possible acid with an alkali such as a small touch of household bleach and rinse again and then go to the drying stage, but whatever you choose, get to the drying stage as quickly as possible as the metal inside is likely to start rusting slowly again if left damp.
I suggest going to a further acid stage using a quick splash around of Phosphoric Acid. This type of acid is not likely to etch the metal away strongly and will create a slight surface protection if a very slight amount is not washed completely away at the final rinse. So after about 10 minutes, stop the Phosphoric acid stage and pour away this relatively weak acid. (Not quite as corrosive to yourself as the Spirits of Salt in fact it is an ingredient of fizzy drinks). One quick water rinse is all that is needed now to finish. Another thing to note is that phosphoric acid usually converts brown rust flakes to a black compound but if you have done stage 2 to a fully bright clean result, there will be no brown flakes of rust any way to convert but the bright steel can be etched with some benefit of the anti corrosion resistant skin it can produce.
Stage 4: Drying
All we have to do now is to dry out the water as quickly as possible to ward off the spoiling of the nice metal finish by rust. Shake out as much water as you can, and I find there is a point that just flipping the tank quickly but quite lightly around with the filler-hole at the lowest point is the most effective as the water flips over the slight internal edge of the hole better this way. I know this sounds obvious but it's difficult to describe.
I then use a hot air gun with the tank taps removed to get some air circulation through the tank. I stand the tank vertical so it acts like a chimney and aids the hot air movement, taking out the damp air with it. As the tank heats up quickly, it is better to try to rock the tank around at stages as the remaining water tends to puddle in crevices and when moved and spread quickly over the hot metal, it evaporates very quickly. Doing it this way, I can get a tank bone dry in about 15 minutes. Don't heat the tank continually, by the way, with the hot air gun as you might do some damage to it.
I use rubber washing up gloves when doing this and also have a hose pipe handy for flushing. I have spilt all products on a painted tank but have found if rinsed of with the hose then there is no damage.
And where are you going with that acid sir?
I am going home to clean my motorcycle tank constable.
motorcycle or moped sir?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41614990
I am going home to clean my motorcycle tank constable.
motorcycle or moped sir?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41614990
I don't think either Chris or Rob are likely to carry out an acid attack and I'm willing to bet they are both probably over 18. No firearms, no knives, no acid, possible ban on old vehicles, no fun. Pretty soon they won't let you lot out of your houses except to go to work.
Steven
Hi David
The rear light yes needs replacing , the handlebars are correct 25-1/2", The mudguards are highly polished aluminium.
I have now removed the tank which needs new rubber mounts. I am getting a list together a long list of the cosmetic parts, The tank had indeed been resprayed at some time, the seat was recovered as a to my mind poor diy job lots of large headed copper nails holding it down. A rewire is needed as there are rotted wires with copper core visible in places, there is no battery in the battery box, it was dead and not connected so I removed it. I have some oil drips from under or behind the engine. The Mag had been rewound by the seller done by a fellow known as "The Mag Man" I gather he in on the web.
Thanks guys for the many suggestions re-cleaning the tank I got loose crud out after I have removed it and will give cleaning a go lots of crevice's in there.
I will have to get assorted parts re-chromed, the wheels look ok in photos and would do but need re-chroming, the carb is an Amal but of a later vintage I see no number on it.
Before I get too involved I will need the bike looked at so I do not make mistakes that will spoil the look. I wonder if I should have a combined dip and horn switch, right now they are separates on opposite sides of the handlebars. I just do not know how many rubber bushes there are that are rotted but guess that all should be replaced.
I am freeing up the control cables some are sticky and doing that with WD40 squirted down cable but long term will have to replace them all a firm on the web called HEL have been suggested.
Chris
I think the cables from the Club Shop are nylon lined, Much better and worth changing, ie lighter to use.
Cheers Bill.
Cheers Bill.
Chris,
One of the problems I have had with newly painted tank is that they leak. It is often the case that there are leaks on the top of the tank. The leaks on the bottom have to be repaired, but the ones on top only show up if you fill the tank up. With the tank off don't be afraid to pour a little fuel in and then turn the tank so the fuel is pooled right under where the handlebars normally reside. I have welded quite a few that had been patched with body putty.
Your wheels should not be polished in the center if you put chrome on them. This is because they will be painted and striped in the centers. Also polishing the centers weakens the spoke holes by thinning them and the spokes will have a tendency to pull through. Make sure they are original rims if you wish to fix them. If they are not it is often easier to buy new rims that are painted and striped.
Original style wiring harnesses can also be purchased from Rhode Island Wiring. I had them copy an original Miller wiring harness and they do a nice job.
http://www.riwire.com/
I sent them an original Series D harness also and they have that listed, so make sure you order the Series C if you have an interest. It is in their foreign catalog as it is a US company.
Best of luck,
David
One of the problems I have had with newly painted tank is that they leak. It is often the case that there are leaks on the top of the tank. The leaks on the bottom have to be repaired, but the ones on top only show up if you fill the tank up. With the tank off don't be afraid to pour a little fuel in and then turn the tank so the fuel is pooled right under where the handlebars normally reside. I have welded quite a few that had been patched with body putty.
Your wheels should not be polished in the center if you put chrome on them. This is because they will be painted and striped in the centers. Also polishing the centers weakens the spoke holes by thinning them and the spokes will have a tendency to pull through. Make sure they are original rims if you wish to fix them. If they are not it is often easier to buy new rims that are painted and striped.
Original style wiring harnesses can also be purchased from Rhode Island Wiring. I had them copy an original Miller wiring harness and they do a nice job.
http://www.riwire.com/
I sent them an original Series D harness also and they have that listed, so make sure you order the Series C if you have an interest. It is in their foreign catalog as it is a US company.
Best of luck,
David